Curse

Josiphos · Feb 20, 2011, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Code:

OgKjkurKrSQXSXPXib8XZiaXuXA

scythe=11+1 earthp=10+1 mystic=10+1+1]
[victorious sweep]
[pious assault]
[twin moon sweep]
[heart of fury]
[mystic sandstorm]
[shield of force]
[staggering force]
[avatar of balthazar]

Been working well for me. I sometimes swap out the SoF for other things.

Lemme know what y'all think

LifeInfusion · Feb 21, 2011, 12:43 AM // 00:43

You don't have Dust Cloak, so Pious Assault/Twin Moon Sweep are on 6 recharge... I'd ditch Shield of force for it, seeing how blind is tons better than weakness and 1 block isn't much. It's not like you're comboing Shield of Force's knockdown with Rending Aura.

Josiphos · Feb 21, 2011, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

You don't have Dust Cloak, so Pious Assault/Twin Moon Sweep are on 6 recharge... I'd ditch Shield of force for it, seeing how blind is tons better than weakness and 1 block isn't much. It's not like you're comboing Shield of Force's knockdown with Rending Aura.

I had dust cloak for a while. It worked well too. SoF knocking down a group is awesome though...

I experimented with aura of thorns for the cripple/bleed and the lesser cost (5 v 10), just for the quick teardown to activate burning. I found that I didn't have any energy problems though (real values 3 v 6).

Burning seems pretty constant with auras going off and on. Cracked armor/burning/blind...pretty evil

NerfHerder · Feb 26, 2011, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I have been using something similar. FGJ is just a filler skill. With DPS taken down a notch w/o AScan, condition stacking might see more play(pressure). Honestly, I dont know why I havent heard more about this kind of build. It has everything. Cripple to hold aggro, Cracked Armor for HM, maxed degen with Burning and Bleeding, and as much DPS as a Pious Teardown with 3 times the utility and its easier to use.

FoxBat · Feb 26, 2011, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

and as much DPS as a Pious Teardown with 3 times the utility and its easier to use.

If by "as much" you mean "20% less" then sure.

Josiphos · Feb 26, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

If by "as much" you mean "20% less" then sure.

Very helpful to just throw that out there without any support.

Lots of builds are viable, just because one has 5 dps less than another does not make it crap.

anyhow,

I've been tinkering with the build. I swapped out victorious sweep for another 5 energy enchantment: either zealous renewal or aura of thorns. Veil of thorns seems more powerful, but I'm worried about taking 3 ten (real 5) energy flash skills, especially if I'm cycling them. With a zealous/dust/staggering setup I don't have any problems

FoxBat · Feb 26, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

It's not 5%, it's like 25%, that's huge, and this is from MoD. You might value support more, but don't pretend like there isn't a raw DPS cost, at least not with Nerfherder's particular build. (Which I see as particularly bad among balth builds.)

Ghull Ka · Feb 26, 2011, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

(Which I see as particularly bad among balth builds.)

Can you post some builds that we can compare?

I came to these forums to learn more about the recent changes, and I'm glad there are a variety of Avatar of Balthazar builds appearing. Looking forward to seeing the ones which you believe beats the OP's.

@OP: Thanks for the post, I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Rites · Feb 27, 2011, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It's not 5%, it's like 25%

25% = what 5-7 points? seriously? you slam a build for 5-7 points dps?

NerfHerder · Feb 28, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

That odd when I test my AoB vs Pious Teardown at MoD(which is a horrible way to test damage but I digress) they all hover get roughly the same damage. But the Pious teardown doesnt have alot of room for a Snare or AoE Cracked Armor. I would like to see your build thats 25% better.

Cracked Armor btw, equals roughly a 25% damage increase. That means 25% more damage done by most of you party to your nearby foes, not just you. The amount of damage isnt that noticable on MoD because of his low armor. Sure you can add Aura Slicer, but that means your spamming SY less. Also consider MoD includes health degen. -10 health degen is equal to 20 DPS and that effects all nearby foes, not just your target or 3 adjacent. You can theory craft and number crunch all you want. Utility is harder to put a figure on, and benefits the whole group more so than just added damage. Such as the snare on the HM foe thats kiting away from you at 33-50% faster than your running. Or holding a group of foes near you.

Chthon · Feb 28, 2011, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Cracked Armor btw, equals roughly a 25% damage increase.

Cracked armor is 41.42% unless the foe has less than 80 AL to start with.

Pious Spam is lightyears better than AoB.
1. It benefits from Orders.
2. Pair it with Dark Fury (on an Orders necro no less) and it can spam TMS. That doubles your buffs. There's no other way to get enough enchantments to tear down to match that.

On a closely related topic, doubling your buffs is generally going to be the most damage you can do. Assuming SoH+GDW+Orders, the second hit will be doing base + 50 to 60. Competitors are VoS when MoP or Barbs is at play and Reap Impurities when mobs are very large. If you want to make AoB useful, I'd look for a build that (1) can furiously spam Reap Impurities against big balls, and (2) can still do decent DPS to single targets. Otherwise it's pretty junk.

FoxBat · Feb 28, 2011, 08:19 AM // 08:19

If you really want cracked armor, you can just slap aura slicer or the wind/earth enchants. Losing one teardown you're still ahead with pious spam.
And do the FGJ + 2 adrenal variant on pious, that's highly spammable, and is 20 MoW DPS over nerfs' build. It gets to be around 3 out of 4 attacks while FGJ is up. The real problem with nerf's build is it basically autoattacks and fires a bit of degen, not impressive.

TBH i don't like the whole idea of balthazar with FGJ around. Better adrenaline and no elite usage, and the effects do not stack either. For avatars grenths will do more damage with lifesteal + disease vs burning, and there's plenty of other elites that can likewise spam "utility" enchants if you want, wounding strike for fast DW spam, dwaynas for heals, KD lock with reapers, etc. Balth just doesn't seem to bring anything to the table when FGJ is so easy to use.

Quote:

Pious Spam is lightyears better than AoB.
1. It benefits from Orders.

While I dislike AoB, this isn't much of a reason for being "lightyears ahead." Not all of us play in guild teams at all times, and I'm not bringing an orders hero to buff 1 melee, nor will I have GDW avaliable. (although, dark fury isn't that hard to fit in)

Josiphos · Feb 28, 2011, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Can you post some builds that we can compare?

I came to these forums to learn more about the recent changes, and I'm glad there are a variety of Avatar of Balthazar builds appearing. Looking forward to seeing the ones which you believe beats the OP's.

@OP: Thanks for the post, I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Altered the build a little. Victorious sweep seemed like it didnt do much. Useless on first hit since you're full health and monsters will likely have more health then anyway.

[pious assault] -teardown 3s recharge
[twin moon sweep] -teardown 6 adren
[heart of fury]
[mystic sandstorm] -for when i really get mobbed mass damage
[aura of thorns] cripple/bleed
[dust cloak] -blind
[staggering force] -cracked armor
[avatar of balthazar]- armor, adrenaline, burning

I've really been liking the thorns. Keeps monsters (and I only play pve) from kiting around me to kill the monks. And makes them ineffective if they try and switch targets mid fight (limp limp limp, getting pounded). Bleeding after the fact is just a bonus.

You really don't need a teardown more than once every 3 seconds...burning from AoB lasts 5 and affects all nearby.

In place of AofThorns, I also ran Mystic vigor in places and basically never ran out of life.

NerfHerder · Feb 28, 2011, 03:14 PM // 15:14

I have been using this for Pious Teardown. I'm only getting between 58-65 DPS at MoD. Same as I get with the AoB build. I spam attack skills as fast as it will let me. What am I doing wrong? I should be getting about 80-90 DPS with Pious teardown right?

Josiphos · Feb 28, 2011, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I have been using this for Pious Teardown. I'm only getting between 58-65 DPS at MoD. Same as I get with the AoB build. I spam attack skills as fast as it will let me. What am I doing wrong? I should be getting about 80-90 DPS with Pious teardown right?

I can see the point of the pious teardown; I never said it was junk.

It benefits are life stream and pretty quick turnaround on spamming 20-25 holy damage.

The damage is only adjacent though. Burning reaches this damage after only 1.5 seconds and is nearby, not adjacent based.

Pious also has no cripple, bleed, blind and can only do cracked armor on single target.

AoB build also has Mystic sandstorm , which hits everything in the area regardless of blocking. Pious' damage drops vs AoB when blocking/blinding is considered.

Also, what if Pious Renewal gets hit with diversion or some other long recast delay...the build is toast? AoB is cast out of range before the battle...

Just some interesting points to consider

Ghull Ka · Feb 28, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Aye, I like the Pious Teardown builds, but it's a little too button-spammy for me after a while... I'm definitely interestd in some of the avatar builds just to give my arthritis a rest for a few.

Chthon · Feb 28, 2011, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I have been using this for Pious Teardown. I'm only getting between 58-65 DPS at MoD. Same as I get with the AoB build. I spam attack skills as fast as it will let me. What am I doing wrong? I should be getting about 80-90 DPS with Pious teardown right?

You've got the wrong attack skills.

PA is a must have for the short recharge.

TMS is very strongly desirable. That means FJG and a hero with Dark Fury, but it's worth it.

Irresistible is only worthwhile if you know there's going to be annoying stances or getting the adr to spam TMS is going to be a problem.

Wearying Strike is very nice when there's space.

Reap Impurities is worth considering if mobs are huge.

It's hard to say no to cracked armor, but there really isn't room for Aura Slicer. Let a necro bring Weaken Armor.

Eremites is always going to be worse than Irresistible or Reap or both.

NerfHerder · Mar 01, 2011, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Old habits are hard to kick. I wont go anywhere without SY!. That being said, I have revised my AoB build. I added TMS and Balthazars Rage. Even though it doesnt improve my DPS it has a nice health boost and it doesnt decrease my DPS either(still the same as Pious Teardown vs single targets). With the double strike and adrenaline gain, I found I can use SY! twice in about 10 seconds and TMS at least once. I wont always need unblockable. But I'll take a sure hit attack over an ify more powerful attack anyday. I also like the Aura of Thorns/Pious Fury and Staggering Force/Irresistable Force combo because I'm a lazy enchantment juggler. They have the same recharge, so I know I'm doing it right. It's not as powerful as a VoS/SS build vs mobs. But I cant say its not an effective tanking build.

I also added TMS to my Pious Teardown. I dont know if these where the exact skills you were talking about, but it gives a nice AoE effect and i still get a snare. Here again, it didnt add much to my dps, but its less spamy than my last build and still give more AoE damage. I'm really like TMS now. with a zealous scythe you get 2 energy and 2 adrenaline(4 with FGJ). I'll keep this build on the back burner for when we get a full hero party. Then it might be worth taking an orders.

I test my builds on HM WiK mobs, because I'm preparing for the C:WoC event. Condition/Hex removal and blocking is rampant in those mobs. So unblockable attack skills, and Snares for the IMS come in handy. And even though some of my conditions will be removed, they cant remove them all. They can also pump out alot of damage and I only play with H/H most of the time. That's why I always bring SY! If its practical.

Thanks for eveybody's input. It's been helpful. I've learned TMS/SY! is much easier to spam than I thought. I would also strongly suggest taking Pious Fury over Heart of Fury no matter what. Adrenaline is best used elsewhere.

Avison · Mar 01, 2011, 03:38 PM // 15:38

If you insist on running one of the new Avatars, especially Balthazar, try Aura of Thorns. It cripples and causes bleeding when you tear down. That means when you have Balth up and tear down AoT you have max degeneration on what is hopefully a huge group.